Many Christians read the Easter stories year upon year, as I did for several decades, yet we never compare them in detail. As a consequence, we often do not realize that they are not telling the same story. There are indeed contradictions in the texts, but it is very important to move beyond “mere contradiction” – the issues with our gospels are far more extensive than that. Comparison against the historical record and assessing the gospels for trends of legend development are probably far more crucial. As with many non-believers, I left Christianity specifically because of the Bible, and because I considered and examined its content very seriously indeed.
Perhaps it is time for more Christians to take the Bible and our Easter stories seriously.
[Click Image for Full Size Version. Use Ctrl+ and Ctrl- to adjust zoom.]
As always, I look to improve the accuracy of my work wherever possible. Please reply with any factual errors found, and I will correct appropriately. Thanks.
Also See: Infographic for New Testament Timeline
(C) Copyright 2014, JerichoBrisance.com
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-NoDerivatives 4.0 International License.
[In other words, feel free to pass along, distribute, etc., just don’t repackage it and sell it. Thanks!]
~
References:
- Dennis, Lane T., ed. ESV Study Bible. Wheaton, IL: Crossway, 2008.
- Thomas, Robert L, and Stanley N. Gundry. A Harmony of the Gospels, NASB. Harper Collins, 1978.
- Ehrman, Bart D. Jesus, Interrupted: Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (And Why We Don’t Know About Them). HarperOne, 2010.
- Borg, Marcus J. Evolution of the Word: The New Testament in the Order the Books Were Written. HarperOne , 2012
- Price, Robert M. (2012-02-07). The Christ-Myth Theory And Its Problems. American Atheist Press.
- Brown, Raymond E. An Introduction to the New Testament. Yale University Press; 1 edition (October 13, 1997)
- http://rationalfaiths.com/a-brief-history-of-the-bible-part-iii-new-testament-timeline/
- Selected lectures by Richard Carrier, YouTube.
Additional Information:
- http://atheism.about.com/od/gospelcontradictions/p/Crucifixion.htm
- http://www.patheos.com/blogs/crossexamined/2012/04/contradictions-in-the-resurrection-account-2/
- http://www.nairaland.com/857842/crucifixion-jesus-contradictions-gospel-accounts
- http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/passover_meal.html
- http://atheism.about.com/od/gospelcontradictions/p/JudasBetrayal.htm
Related Wikipedia Sites:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion_of_Jesus
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resurrection_of_Jesus
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_gospels
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship_of_the_Bible
About this graphic: Template content from GraphicRiver.com, Data Deck II Retro. Fonts include Abraham Lincoln and Fabrica.
Jericho Brisance 
Nicely done, Sir! Are we to expect another for the resurrection?
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LOL, I’m pretty worn out John. Maybe next year. It is a truckload of work to do these graphics. Its easier to write, that’s for sure.
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I don’t get it. What didn’t he cover here?
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The post-Easter 40 day zombie walk-about.
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He covered the zombies. It’s there under “Whoppers that fail the fact check” with the line “Many dead walk the streets”.
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Yes, yes, but i’m talking about Jesus’ 40 day zombie walkabout.
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I second what John said.
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Reblogged this on Christianity Simplified and commented:
Inconsistencies of the story of Easter in the Gospels – in the form of a stylish infographic!
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Holy crap, dude! I had no idea from your preview that this was going to be so extensive. Impressive work, friend.
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Ratamacue, thanks very much… And if anyone can find an error, I will correct and re-release. I try to be very careful…
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“regardging” is the only thing I noticed. Fantastic work.
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Thanks Joel, I’ll put that on a list and see if anyone turns up something else.
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“Continue” is misspelled in the last section under “Blindfold.” Great work, though.
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Joseph – thanks, I’ve added this to the list. 🙂
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This seems relevant…
As part of a comment on Richard Carrier’s blog, a reader said, “[I]f the claims made by Christians (or at least the ones believing in a historical Christ) are true then we would expect the record to be a lot clearer. This God who can raise the dead does not have the foresight to hire a scribe to act as chronographer.”
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Exactly. Or just have Jesus write things himself… he could have told us a thing or two about what’s on the other side, right? (or Lazarus, who was never interviewed, per Hitchens)
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Reblogged this on Nan's Notebook and commented:
Excellent work! An infographic that should be carefully perused by every believer.
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I too reblogged this and commented:
“Excellent work! An infographic that should be carefully perused by every believer.”
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I didn’t realize WordPress would automatically publish a reblog so you can delete this second comment. 😉
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No problem
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Thanks Nan, these infographics are meant to spread on the wind. Hopefully it cracks the egg for folks that have never compared the accounts before…
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That is seriously impressive! My favourite graphic for clearly showing contradictions is the ‘Greeters at the tomb’. Whoppers that fail the fact check is brilliant. And the Gospel Truths section (do you have a post with more on this?) is beautifully succinct. Really pretty too. 🙂
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Thanks Violet, very appreciated. My NT page under journey has more, if you haven’t read that one already… also, I had a recent post on the anonymity of the gospels that you may like.
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Execellent post. Thanks for all your hard work
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Matt, this is embarrassing, and serves me right for multitasking, but I didn’t realize you actually created the graph yourself, until I started reading other people’s comments. When I seconded what John said I thought he was talking about your post and for posting the graph. It was rather obviously at the end, but my mind was focused on the info the first time around, and I assumed it was something you got from elsewhere and reposted it. My bad. This really is brilliant work, and I agree with Violet, it’s aesthetically pleasing.
Happy Ishtar — and hope the Ishtar bunny leaves you with lots of goodies in your basket. 🙂
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Thanks so much! I had good raw material to work from… 🙂
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Indeed. 😉
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My advice to Jesus: Hang in there, Baby —
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Chuckles…..
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I know – I’m good at being bad —
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You have a serious knack for this stuff! Absolutely incredible! Was hoping to see comments with opposing viewpoints. I’ll subscribe and see what happens.
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Howie – thanks much!
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This website is a special kind of ministry. ;D
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Ratamacue0 – that’s kinda the idea. 🙂
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Absolutely awesome. People’s brains ‘see’ better in pictures, I am told.
You should seriously consider turning this into a full scale poster and market it, Matt.
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Ark,
Well, thanks, but LOL on the selling posters thing. I’m happy with communicating at the speed of the web. 🙂
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Reblogged this on A Tale Unfolds and commented:
A thorough and polished graphic that every single believer should read, and scrutinize.
It really is time for believers to step up to the plate and face the truth squarely. This is simply a story.
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Thorough and concise ! Great job, Matt ! I agree with Ark. This should be made into a Poster .
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Thanks Ken. 🙂
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I always thought that going back to aniont the body with spices post three days mortem made no sense, but didn’t look into it. Does anyone know why that would have been a thing? Or does it just make no sense?
Great job on the poster, it is very nicely done.
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It really isn’t three days later, but from late Friday afternoon to early Sunday morning, the three day thing comes from the use of sundown to mark a new day, a strange idea in my mind, but they’re not my tribe. The problem came that by the time they got the body back from the Romans, the sun had just about set and they had to ditch it somewhere, Joseph’s empty tomb was handy and he loaned it out. The problem was the Sabbath rules, no work after sunset on Friday including ditching a dead body. So none of the proper cleaning and anointing preburial work had been done, the women/Mary Magdalene went back at first light Sunday morning to get that done. All of the basic parts of this would be true of anybody who died late Friday afternoon and doesn’t have anything particular to do with the Jesus story. The three day thing comes from making the story fit some prophecy about Jesus being in the tomb three days. He barely squeaks through on a technicality, but there are three different calendar days involved. Not 72 hours mind you, but three different calendar days. All of this of course depends on whether or not you even think Jesus was real. That’s another story entirely. The other thing was that this particular Sabbath was also Passover and an especially holy and sacred time for the Jews. Passover does not always coincide with the Sabbath, that year it did. Hope that helps. More a note on First Century Jewish practices concerning the Sabbath and burial customs than anything else.
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Good info, thanks. 🙂
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Good thoughts Mariah
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. He barely squeaks through on a technicality…
You wouldn’t believe how much time I spent trying to figure all that out. back in the believing days 🙂 Thanks for the info, I guess I hadn’t thought of the delay of the body preparation in that way.
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Alice, I’ve made it a point to study it, and you won’t believe the lengths orthodox Jews go to to make sure they don’t violate the Sabbath. I subscribe to Chabad.org, a Jewish e-publication, and they are advised to put aluminum foil on burner and toaster knobs Friday evening, so that no one will even unthinkingly flip a switch, for that would be work. All food must be prepared the day before, and while you can keep it warm overnight (as in a CrockPot), you must turn it on before sundown. You can lift the serving bowl from the CrockPot to the table (somehow, that isn’t work), but you can’t put it back – that’s work.
If i were Jewish, I think I’d simply say, “Come on, G-d, send me to hell, it couldn’t be any worse than this!”
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An extreme example of this, Alice, could be seen in a pic that I call, “Hebrew-in-a-bag.” It is a photo of a bearded Rabbi, full black suit, hat, the works, seated in a conventional airline seat, entirely encased in a large plastic bag. It is against Hebrew law to encroach on a cemetery, and for fear that the plane might inadvertently fly over one in transit, this Rabbi endured ridicule rather than risk that any “evil” should somehow get on his person.
Do NOT ask me to explain that kind of mentality! What quality of life could he possibly have, living in so much fear of antagonizing an imaginary being? He needn’t worry about going to hell, he’s already there.
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He certainly is.
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I listened to a sermon from Dr. David Jeremiah yesterday concerning the ‘insurmountable proof’ of the resurrection. One of the things he thought was insurmountable was the empty grave clothes. He explained how bodies were prepared for burial, spices then layers of cloth, then spices, then layers of cloth, and so forth and so on. Then the fact that these grave clothes were left in their place, partially caved in, according to Dr. Jeremiah who got this from the viral pictures on instagram I guess. My first thought was, ‘but that’s what the women who found the empty tomb were going to do’.
He had seven points and I had all seven of them well-refuted before he even got done reading them out.
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Ruth,
Classic. The thing that astonishes me about this is the simple circular reasoning:
“OK, if you don’t want to believe the gospels that Jesus rose from the dead, then let me give you story details as recorded in the gospels to prove it to you.”
Gee, aren’t I being asked to believe the gospel writers were accurate all over again? Proof, this does not make.
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Exactly. Every single point was stripped from the gospels. If you doubt the gospels that ain’t very convincing.
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It made me want to print this out poster size and see if he would put it up on his big screen for all his parishioners to see. 😉
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Ruth,
There is an old Beavis and Butthead that I recall. They make some hand drawn dollar bills and go into a convenience store. After attempting to pay for their purchases with the fake bills, the clerk angrily says, “Hey, what is this!”
They slide him another bill just like it and say, “Maybe this’ll change your mind.”
Feels kinda like that, doesn’t it? 🙂
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Yes. Definitely. Or a shell game. Oh…wait. That’s the same thing.
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Is the sermon available online? Share a link and your refutation? You could put it on your own blog if you want, and reply here with a link. 🙂
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I haven’t written it up. I’ll try to do that in the next couple of days and post a link here.
Dr. Jeremiah was one of my favorites along with Dr. Charles Stanley when I was a Christian. Oddly, I still like to listen to them sometimes. The major difference is that now, instead of agreeing with everything they say, I’m thinking about their points critically. Even though I don’t agree with their conclusions I find them interesting. Is that weird?
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Ruth, I don’t think that’s weird at all. We’ll probably never lose interest in these things because its so deep in our wiring at his point. Victoria would have plenty to say on that I’m sure. 🙂
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I was thinking yes, but maybe I will, too. We’ll see..
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Especially for Ruth, David Jeremiah and ID, check the video out.
http://www.socalsem.edu/divisions/center-for-creation-studies
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I’ve seen this website before. Are you an ID proponent? Creationism? Evolution?
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No, I support evolution. Just wanted to show the connection in the video between David Jeremiah, Lahaye, creationism, inerrancy, etc, all hosted out of the Shadow Mt church (about 6 minutes into the video, after the lights are turned back on, Jeremiah introduces Lahaye). Ken Hamm gets all the press, but Jeremiah is just a stealthy ID proponent, Helps keep the money rolling in by keeping his audience in the dark. Come on now, Madison Square Garden roll-out of his NKJV commentary bible. He is VERY slick.
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Oh, that he is. And my interest in listening to him now is quite different than when I was a believer. I don’t listen that often. Just every once in a while my interest is piqued. When I listen my bs meter is off the chart.
In fact, his television ministry is just…well…over the top in terms of theatrics.
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Just a curious question: are you the same Gary who has been commenting over at Thoughts from a Sandwich?
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When I listened to him as a Christian he only had a radio ministry. I was taken aback by all the Dr. David Jeremiah do-dads they were shilling, not the least of which is that NKJV commentary Bible.
http://www.davidjeremiah.org/site/default.aspx
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“are you the same Gary who has been commenting over at Thoughts from a Sandwich?’….no…never seen Thoughts from a sandwich.
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Lol…okay. I was just curious. Dagoods has some good stuff over there.
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I listened to a lot of D.Jeremiah, too.
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One thing to keep in mind with David Jeremiah. His church (Shadow Mt) beliefs require that all members support inerrancy. This is also a requirement for the college he co-hosts, San Diego Christian College. They require that all students, and staff support inerrancy. A professor can’t work there unless they sign up for inerrancy. Their belief statements also support premillennialism, and the rapture. Not surprising since his church was originally founded by Tim Lahaye. He is also into young earth creationism, and supports the creation museum in Santee, Ca.
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Thomas Paine, from The Age of Reason: “…the disagreement of the parts of a story proves the whole cannot be true.”
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Arch, I love Paine. What a dude, right? I mean, before modern biblical scholarship, before the Israeli archaeology, before all of that, he was calling it straight using his own brain to do the hard work. Amazing. I needed a lot more “help” than Paine did.
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Yeah, he was the kind of dude I would have hung with, you know what they say – “Proto-birds of a feather–“
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LOL
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Hey, LOOK (or, BEHOLD!) – a god descended from the heavens, had sex with a virgin, and left behind a son! Shame the poor colt is going to wind up in a can of dogfood, for the sins of horsekind —
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Someone needs to bring this info graphic to the attention of The Friendly Atheist blog. It’d be perfect for an entry tomorrow. I tried already, but can’t seem to get my mobile device to get through on their contact and suggestions page.
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Fox,
Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll follow up on it. 🙂
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Excellent job! First thing I do every morning (after checking my handful of Christian blogs) is head to the Friendly Atheist. And there it was! YES!
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Your suggestion my man – much thanks!
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Fox,
Did you have a link on this? I didn’t see anything overt, but I am passing it to them through FB at least…
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Friendly Atheist is a contributor at Patheos.com. You might find something there — appears to be a link for submissions. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/
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I’m going with #4 – Growing Legend. I could go with #5 too.
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Cody,
I’m also a #4.
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Bah Humbug. I clicked on it but couldn’t get a version large enough for the old eyes to be able to make out what’s written there. I think part of the problem is that I’m on a laptop, they have strange screen size thingies. I did notice that there are several different ( and no where near as thorough) commentaries on the Easter story that point out that it is improbable out there. Interestingly, most of the responses to them from Christians are of the type “you can say that now, but just wait until you’re dead, then Jesus will send you to Hell forever for not believing”. That seems to be the fall back position, just take it on faith or else. I was pretty much cured of any residual Christianity by the time I ran into that one, so it was just amusing rather than meaningful.
Having read all these comments, Wah! I want to see it now! (old ladies throwing temper tantrums are a silly sight!) Thanks for all your hard work!
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For future reference, I think on pretty much any desktop PC browser, you should be able to zoom in/out with Ctrl+ / Ctrl- (or Ctrl and mouse scroll wheel).
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Or Command key + or – on a Mac.
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Or click on the image.
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Well, it’s definitely a large screen format. Sorry bout that, But I hope you can check it out. 🙂
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I happened to go over to Truth is Elusive and the links worked correctly there! Fantastic! Now I can go to bed and wait for my chocolate bunny to arrive!
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This could have been so awesome, if only you didn’t try to hide the text by making it nearly the same colour as the background…
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I found the gray text to be a bit light as well. Aside from that minor detail, fantastic work!
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Soliats – I just updated the contrast based on your comment. Thanks for the update… I suspect there may be some monitor dependency on this one. The v1.1 has a little more contrast, without changing the look & feel.
Happy Easter. 🙂
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It is magnificent!
Thanks. 🙂
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Is it possible to purchase a copy of this infographic in poster form? If live to hang one on my wall at home
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You could try having it printed at a print center like Staples or FedEx Kinko’s. I think they have color plotters, so you could have it in a large size.
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Lee,
No, I’m not really printing them. But feel free to print your own – I don’t care, as long as nobody is repackaging and making money off of it. Feel free to distribute at will, pass along, whatever. All I ask is source recognition. Cheers… 🙂
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Just print it out, Lee – or if you really want it badly enough, go to a print shop with the URL, they’ll have computers and can do it for you.
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I read your “Journey” via a referral from Friendly Atheist and enjoyed the meticulous way you documented your deconversion. My own started when I decided to read the Bible in my early teens. I managed to get through Genesis without being outraged (must have missed Lot’s daughters), but the whole Passover – harden Pharoah’s heart – slaughter the first born enraged me. Even as allegory, it was immoral. I was raised in a liberal, non Bible literal, Lutheran tradition, and went through the whole First Communion thing a few years later, but I was well on my way to becoming an agnostic at that point.
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Thank you for a well-researched and informative graphic. I expect it was a lot of work but it’s a lovely job.
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Hey Matt, I was excited to see this on the Friendly Atheist blog. Congratulations! Don’t worry about those who are being negative, they don’t know you like your regular readers do. We appreciate the time and thought you put into this piece. We also know that you’re the kind of person who doesn’t like to be rude, but cordial when it comes to Christians and other theists. Your goal in this project wasn’t to be confrontational, but to merely bring to light some discrepancies regarding the crucifixion of Jesus in the Gospels. I am incredibly proud of you. I had directed this post to Debbie Mitchell and my husband posted it on his Facebook page yesterday. I believe you were simply wanting to get Christians to look more closely at the events they dearly hold unto this time of the year.
Happy spring to you, Janelle and those four gorgeous babies of yours. Please tell my girl that I did get her email, things have just been a little nutty around here. You know me, if I can’t send an email at least a page long at a time I don’t send one at all, 🙂
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Yeah, I KNOW – what’s up with that?
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Happy spring, Charity! No worries about the email; I completely understand. I always enjoy your emails. They make my day! 🙂
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(Word to the wise – it’s not a good idea to “like” my snide comments, Jbars, it only encourages me –)
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Aw Arch, sometimes it’s fun to feed the beast. Happy spring and enjoy some sunshine!
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Since I’ll be mowing an acre of lawn this afternoon, I expect to get plenty of that.
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Beast, huh –?
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I almost always enjoy your comments, Arch. 😉
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(Note to self: Did she say, “almost” –?)
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“(Note to self: Did she say, “almost” –?)”
Lol — Sure looks that way, Arch. Do you need another fill-up? Come over here and I’ll blow in your ear.
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So many responses – so few will pass censorship —
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The audacity.
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Charity,
Thanks so much – you’re a gift. 🙂
Matt
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NOTICE: I just updated the image to v1.1 in order to darken the gray text slightly. At least one viewer said there was insufficient contrast to read easily, and we can’t be having that. 🙂 I have no issues with the original here, but there may be some dependency on the monitor in use. This recent version looks essentially the same, but the contrast is a little stronger in order to resolve any issues. Thanks!
~ Matt
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I ran across this, and found it particularly interesting – it would seem that even in those times, there was the equivalent of America’s modern-day Republicans and Democrats:
(Chronicle of Jewish History from the Patriarchs to the 21st Century, by Sol Scharfstein and Dorcas Gelabert (Oct 1997) ISBN 0881256064 page 85)
The article went on to say,
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Some may find this informative:
(Murray, ED.; Cunningham MG, Price BH. (1). “The role of psychotic disorders in religious history considered“. J Neuropsychiatry Clin Neuroscience 24 (4): 410–26. doi:10.1176/appi.neuropsych.11090214.
[Ted Jeory (express.co.uk): “Jesus Christ ‘may have suffered from mental health problems’, claims Church of England”]
(World English Bible)
[Karina Jarzyńska (racjonalista.pl): “Jezus jako egocentryczny schizotymik” (Polish)]
[Leszek Nowak: Prywatna Witryna Internetowa Leszka Nowaka (Polish)]
My source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus#Criticism_of_historical_Jesus_research
“Oh, but Wikipedia has a bad reputation for inaccuracy!” – no problem Theists, I’ve included links to each, or at least, in the case of books, references, check them out for yourself.
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I rarely post anything that has to do with religion on my fb page but this was just too good. It’s a great counter to all the “He is risen” folderol my Xian friends boldly post this time of year. Very well done. Hoping it will start some discussion but I doubt it.
FWIW, I found you from Friendly Atheist but it looks like a few of my WordPress friends also follow you. Serendipity!
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*waves to MichaelB*
Great to see you here. I hope this post goes viral. Tried to post it on Twitter earlier, but it kept spinning, then gave me an error, so will try again.
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Silly Twitter. *waves back*
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@Michael — finally got it to work yesterday — is showing up on both my blogs sidebar now.
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Michael, beauty, glad to hear it. Happy Easter. 😉
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This is brilliant. I should have it on my wall in the office
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I need advice–folks on this blog are about the only people I know that could help. This is probably not the right place for this question so you can tell me where is as well!! As a very recent de-convert that was a worship leader, my music library is very thin outside of xristian music. I’m green. I walked off the stage vowing to never play or listen to a praise song again on just March 23. My favorite song right now is a little old–‘Killing in the Name’ by RATM. And I’ve gone pretty heavy in Eminem. I feel about as spiritual with this stuff as I ever have. What are some others to check out?
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Periphery. 🙂
I was a huge fan during my cognitively dissonant phase. I think maybe not as much now, but I still dig it. It’s more about the music than the lyrics for me. Even when I can make out the words, they’re often difficult to interpret.
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The silence is deafening. 😉
It occurs to me that perhaps I should’ve mentioned that they’re prog / alt / technical metal, or I could’ve given a warning, “Not for the faint of heart.” Since OP mentioned RATM, I thought he might like some heavier stuff.
Yeah, my musical taste is a bit special.
…
As an aside: I had a sort of small “experience” in the thought process and feelings which led me to come back and make this comment. It struck me as similar to times when I “followed the Spirit’s leading” as a believer.
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Thank you ratamacue!
I could not read your replies on my phone! The columns were to narrow! I will get plugged into Periphery and report back!
Yes, that same spirit is what lead me to new . ex.christian.net which lead me here! Listen to the spirit!!
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You guys and your feelings. They just run you, don’t they? 🙂
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Lolwut? Don’t make me go all Scarlet on your ass!
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Yeah, Periphery, I sense they are angry. ;^)
Takes me back aways as I haven’t been into shredding for a while. It is certainly the archetypical example of what you would expect of music that is anti-‘anything’ :-). But I still think I could just listen to them in the background and work and be not-so-subtly reminded that I’m not alone on this planet. Definitely worth adding in the mix next to Rage, thanks!
But, you know, there is something about the dissonance between Quiet Co.’s more melodic instrumentation next to their just as equally disdainful lyrics that makes it just a bit more stirring right now. Its not the message you expect to see painted on that canvas.
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Quiet Company, We are All Where We Belong
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I can’t thank you enough. I think I may have found my new Chris Tomlin. From Austin even….the sun is shining just a little brighter after downloading this.
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Cody – LOL, yeah, I love QC. 🙂
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Cody, we live in Austin; so I was thrilled to find out Austin is home for Quiet Company too!
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Cody – to follow is a link to a good place to start. The blog owner is rude, crude, and socially unacceptable, but I must grudgingly admit that what he lacks in social skills, he does at least partially make up for with great taste in music. He has many, many links to good tunes – good luck:
http://attaleuntold.wordpress.com/
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How is it that your friend the Ark hasn’t seen this?
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I’ve no doubt he has, Mak (chuckle), but declines to dignify it with a response – then too, it’s hard to dispute accuracy.
(“giant pimple!” – it is SO on!)
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Maybe he is preparing a good response for you or waiting for an opportunity to exact his revenge
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“Revenge is a dish that is best served cold” – got it. One can only hope he’s holding his breath while waiting.
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I only hope he will remember the adage he who sets to revenge should dig two graves
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Physical labor? Not in HIS day-planner!
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Haha! He could do it while walking the dog
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Is that what he’s calling it now?
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I am just guessing
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Welcome Cody,
I was heavily involved in praise, worship, prayer and intercession, Bible studies and children’s ministry from babies all the way through the teens.
As a deconvert of two years, I enjoy Adele, some Eminem, Dave Matthews, Bon Iver, Katy Perry, Madonna, The Civil Wars (though I think they’re no longer together), Lady Gaga, Passenger,Far East Movement Ke$ha, Dev, anything written by Carole King, especially her Motown and seventies music, Tracy Chapman, Ne-yo, Far East Movement, Kanye West, India Arie, Erykah Badu, Janelle Monae, Beyonce, Goo Goo Dolls, LMFAO, Paramore (I believe they’re atheist) and Bruno Mars. My husband and I will be seeing Bruno Mars in concert in June and Katy Perry in October. I’m 41 and still enjoy some guilty pleasure hair bands from the eighties, but I also love divas like Whitney Houston and Donna Summer. It’s all about sex, love, empowerment and fun for me, especially since I was denied so much of that for most of my life.
I hope this helps, Good luck, Cody. Always remember you are not alone, deconversions are happening more and more.
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Yeah thanks! I’ve can’t f’in believe I have up Led Zepplin, Metallica, Green Day, and just life in general for a full time stream of Hillsong United. (I do still like their music and voices).
Right now I’m looking for the most anti-religious music possible and the Quiet Company think should work for a few weeks. Enjoy Bruno Mars with your! My wife damn near divorced me because I refused to take my kids to the News Boys two weeks ago.
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I understand. Cody. My youngest (who’s five now) was really into the Newsboys when I deconverted two years ago, he especially liked God’s Not Dead. Yeah, I was quite familiar with that one long before the movie. He eventually quit asking me to play it.
Before I deconverted I was really into Hillsong and IHOP (I’m sure you know I’m not talking about the International House of Pancakes.) I was also a big fan of Twila Paris, Margaret Becker and Rita Springer for many years. I can totally understand your brokeness and the overwhelming feeling of having to start over again. I think others here gave you some great suggestions for music. It is difficult to break away from the whole spiritual realm, even within “secular” music. Many musicians sing about heaven, prayer, God and souls. So many male and female artists have a Church background, they were either choir members or preacher’s kids.
Tori Amos, I believe, is an atheist. I really like her music, but it’s not exactly the kind of stuff I would want to listen to on a regular basis. I gather that Steve Martin is an atheist as well and actually has some great blue grass music that he’s recorded with Edie Brickell (As in the “Bohemians” and Paul Simon’s wife.) Bjork is also an atheist.
Maybe this will help you, Cody.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycowVfGjwU0
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http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2011/10/02/the-perfect-songs-for-atheists/
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Thanks for sharing this link, Charity. I’m heading over now….
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Charity–thanks for your encouragement. Yeah, I’ve got to be one of the top 50 consumers of the IHOP stream. Very familiar! Actually it was my delving into spiritualism surrounding IHOP and Jesus Culture that really started me thinking….really thinking. And yeah, I play electric guitar and loved the Jesus Culture stuff. In fact they still come up as suggested on YouTube and I listened to ‘one thing remains’ today just to think about the lead lines. I finally admitted that my truest, most real love of the church was getting to play those smooth and stirring choruses with hundreds of voices singing along. I talked myself into staying for about a year longer just because I loved to jam with those guys. Now let me tell you I already miss that terribly. After quitting the band a month ago I promised the pastor, one of my best friends, I would at least come to watch Easter worship. Well I broke down pretty bad during a couple of my favorites. It was no religious experience it was realization that I’ve never had a religious experience I’ve just freaking loved to play spiritual music and I’m almost devastated that the only forum available to do that is a ‘beautiful lie’ to quote QC.
Can you tell I’m going through a process? I am so grateful for the replies and support and for Matt letting me highjack his board. I’m looking for the right place for me to do this thing. At least I did print off Matt’s poster and am taking it to my associate pastor on Wednesday.
(Charity, I remember telling my mom I loved Tori Amos and she told me to be careful she was an atheist!)
But all is not lost. Just this week I posted on Craigslist there was a electric player looking for a gig and now I have a meeting with a country band! Not totally huge on country but I do think its time for drinking songs. And if anyone needs an electric player in central Iowa hit me up. It will keep me off the streets and out of the pews.
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Hello Cody,
Matt and Janelle are incredibly kind people. They are patient, understanding and honestly, quite peaceful. There’s a great group of people who comment here, you’ll find many of them in Matt’s “Community” section on this blog.
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Nice – music for the secular seems to be a bit of a theme in the past week or so and I like it. I’ve been listening to some of the songs on your lists – that’s the first time I heard “Atheists Don’t Have No Songs” and it cracked me up. You all got me motivated and I found another good link here (so apparently we DO have songs!) I’ve always been a fan of Iris Dement’s “Let The Mystery Be” as well – the acknowledgment and content with all the uncertainty is a bit of a theme for me.
This got me thinking some (uh-oh) – It’s true that many songs have religious themes and the songs that have depth and move me are songs that connect with our strong values. So religion isn’t the key – it’s our values that are the key. So songs like Imagine which has always moved me (even when I was Christian) fit that – it’s a song connecting with my deepest values I have regarding humans. I am a huge fan of practically all of Cat Stevens’ old songs for the same reasons. I listen to them all the time and never once have I had the urge to convert to Islam. 😉
And this would also explain the fact that Christian songs still move me. I listened to Hillsong Untied for the first time last night (“Oceans”) on youtube after the group was referenced in the comments here, and I am not at all afraid to admit the chills up my spine. Rather than seeing people who believed in something that I no longer believe in I saw humans connecting with what they saw as representing their own values of goodness.
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Excellent point Howie
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Hey Howie,
I understand what you’re saying…”it’s our values that are key”. (While I was still a Christian, Hillsong’s “Worthy is the Lamb” was my favorite worship song.) I just don’t know if Cody is at that point just yet, but I’m certain he will be in time. Personally, I pulled myself far away from Twila Paris upon my deconversion. It wasn’t until recently that I no longer heard God worship in her music. Now I can see her song “All My Heart” as a love song. Not too long ago I posted Twila’s song “Bonded Together” as a dedication of friendship to Victoria. I simply replaced “father” with “sister”.
I also enjoy U2 and Peter Gabriel, though there are bits of spirituality with both artists. I can hear the love and passion in their music, particularly Gabriel’s “In Your Eyes”.
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Loved this, Charity. I’m enjoying the love fest here. Our love for music and the bonds and friendships we’ve formed during discourse on WP.
——————-
“Like a tightly woven garment
Like a metal alloy
We are put together in the strongest way
With a common bond to join us
That they cannot destroy
We are held together in the longest way
And we could not be pulled apart
Without it tearing out a heart
Bonded together
You are my sister forever
You will never leave me
We are bonded together”
———————-
Indeed we are, my sister, my friend. “Still Haven’t Found What I’m Looking For” was a tune I listened to a lot when I was questing my faith. It was such a relief to know that someone else felt the same way. At the time, I had never met anyone who had gone through a deconversion.
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I’m totally with you Charity and I hope my comment didn’t come across as suggesting Cody (or anyone else for that matter) should have the same perspective I have. This topic and life in general are so much more complex than what I could have fit into a comment and there were several caveats I didn’t fit in. Truth is there is music that I don’t want to listen to from certain people who express extremist positions even if the melodies/rhythm is perfect. In fact I mentioned I love Cat Stevens’ old tunes. I’ve tried listening to some of his new stuff but I just can’t get over some of the things he has said (or didn’t say) in interviews regarding suicide bombings and my brain connects that with his new music. I know his positions have morphed several different times, but I’m still not quite sure. While I can see him as a fellow human who has gotten his core values of goodness and love for human beings confused with some nasty ideas I still have a barrier to listening to his new music. Oh well. 🙂
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“And this would also explain the fact that Christian songs still move me. … Rather than seeing people who believed in something that I no longer believe in I saw humans connecting with what they saw as representing their own values of goodness.
Howie, this is such a brilliant comment (all of it) and something I really resonate with. LIke Charity and Cody, I was very involved with the music ministry, and that was incredibly difficult to let go. But eventually I found other methods that gave me the same incredible feelings (neurochemicals), and I was not at risk of further reinforcing neural pathways/connections. What I did was replace the words such as god and heaven, etc., with words about humanism — about the human values on well being. Praise music was my favorite. “I Can Only Imagine” by MercyMe, would make me feel euphoric in the since of hopefulness, so I listened to it for a long time (still do sometimes — it’s in my iPod), and relished in the awe I can feel about being human, our capacity to love; the capacity for other species to empathize and care, too; about the beauty that surrounds us; the enormous time it took for us, the earth and the universe to evolve, about our values and our empathic potential. I feel hope for humanity.
I can only imagine what it will be like when authoritarian religions and others under the spell of and addiction to power, no longer have a hold on humanity and we give credit where credit is due.
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Howie, one more thought — cuz you got me all excited with your comment — but in that MercyMe tune “I Can Only Imagine”, it’s clearly representative of death anxiety. I can only imagine when humans stop the propensity to take life for granted and those we love and care about — savor every moment. We have no guarantees, nor evidence that there is life after death. None! So now you know what that tune means to me, ‘now’. Lol.
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Victoria – so many awesome points in both your comments here and I’m glad we can relate! I also feel hope for humanity and the here and the now is certainly what it’s all about because it’s likely all there is.
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Howie, I never thought of it like that. I certainly agree that I am cueing in much more closely to humanity and to the extent that a praise song demonsrtates how we can and should love each other I may be able to keep some of them in the mix. I was very aware of the songs around the ‘dominionism’ movement were much less about heaven and much more about a fulfilled life on earth. If I could replace the word ‘Hosanna’ with a mental image of ‘human love’ then I bet I could seriously thrive on a few of the best ones.
Try listening to Brooke Frasier sing Hosanna:http://youtu.be/vWzZVGsIQO8
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Hey Cody – you can keep or toss whatever you want – musical tastes are obviously subjective. I think part of the motivation of my comment was me trying to think a little too much about why I connect with certain music and why some of them do send a chill up my spine. Sometimes it really is just the amazing melodies, harmonies, and rhythms that just click – for example my wife and I love Jeff Buckley’s “Hallelujah” and my wife has never had a religious bone in her body and I really don’t care too much what the motivations were of the song I just love the sound (and in that same way I did like the Brooke Frasier tune you linked to). And sometimes it’s a bit of nostalgia too. But there are clearly some songs (like “Imagine”) which hit at my core values and those impact me even more. And last night when I was watching Hillsong United sing “Oceans” I really loved the sound and the words didn’t mean too much to me but I was also struck a bit by how it was moving them as they were singing and then I remembered singing in church and I started thinking that those songs were really hitting me back then at my same core values that I have now – values that were distorted in some ways and mixed in with some cognitive dissonance as well but very much the same as I have now. Just like many others on this blog I wasn’t thinking back then “oh I love this song because I love this God who is going to smite all my enemies” 🙂 It was hitting at my core values just like “Imagine” always has.
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Ok, I listened to that song again. I guess its a little more dogmatic than I thought. Well, I always loved the guitar parts. Ok, on to Periphery.
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RE: the link. Perfect. Exactly what I needed. I did not know these songs were so deep of course I know many of these through pop. But I usually just listened to the snare and the bass imagining the groove. Thanks!!
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Incubus, Drive–holy deconversion, Batman!
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@ratamacue0,
I know, right? My husband told me that he’s sure that he’s heard it on Christian radio stations. I told him that it’s not Christian. I finally had to pull up the lyrics and show him that it’s about not allowing fear to control your life, but for you to “take the wheel”. I think it’s a beautiful song. I enjoy it lyrically and musically as well.
I read a bit about what you’re going through on your blog. Do what is best for you, do not be swayed by anyone, only you know yourself best. Also know that nothing has to be permanent, we all evolve. Whether you find a different denomination, religion or philosophy than what you are accustomed to, do what is right for you. Best wishes.
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Cody,
Have you listened to The Thinking Atheist podcast, yet? If not, you should check it out sometime. Seth Andrews is the host. He used to be in Christian radio broadcasting. Now, as an atheist, he runs the podcast, speaks at seminars, blogs, etc. As of a few weeks ago his podcast was rated #1. You can listen through his website, as well. Anyway, he will often crack a joke about the Christian culture (including music) he used to be part of. Really funny and very encouraging.
Jbars (Janelle)
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Thanks, I’m not familiar with the podcast but I think I saw some floating on YouTube. One on how to respond to Christians challenges to an atheist was particularly poignant as I always held the exact stereotypes to heart. Appreciate it!
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TTA seriously is a great podcast.
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Liestening to Seth Andrews talk about near death experiences. I’m excited that I have a couple of years of material here. Thanks!
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That’s a great one! I’ve been listening since September, and I’ve liked every show I’ve heard. Enjoy. 🙂
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Cody,
I second Quiet Company. They’re great!
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Reblogged this on Atheist Asshole and commented:
Thank you, #MattBrisancian, for the delicious #Easter info graphic!
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Very well done.
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Maybe I missed it, but per “Peter, Paul, and Mary Magdalene”, Bart Ehrman, pg 218, “According to Mark’s account…Jesus was arrested after he had eaten the Passover meal with his disciples, and was crucified at nine o’clock the next morning (see Mark 14:12; 15:25); but according to John’s account Jesus was arrested the night before the Passover meal was to be eaten and was crucified just after noon on the day devoted to the meal’s preparation (John 19:14).” Thus Jesus was crucified before Passover (John), or after Passover (Mark). John theologically reflects Jesus as the Passover lamb (crucified/killed on the day of preparation before Passover).
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Gary,
I looked very hard at including that one, and nearly did so. However, there are some ambiguities to John here, and differing views on conventions for hour designation, and there is a lot of hand waving on the part of harmonizers. I opted to leave it off and go for cleaner “kills” on the discrepancies (there were a number I left off, actually). Had to make some priority decisions based on real estate. But I tend to agree with you and Ehrman.
Matt
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RE: “John theologically reflects Jesus as the Passover lamb (crucified/killed on the day of preparation before Passover).”
Which indicates that John, at least, may have been aware that Bethlehem was the location of the Migdal (from which area came, “Mary, the Migdaline“), where sacrificial lambs were carefully birthed in a sanitary environment, then, at least until they had better control of their legs, wrapped in “swaddling clothes,” and laid on straw in a manger. He realized, it would seem, that for the prophecy to appear to come true, his version of the story would have to have had Jesus killed on that day.
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Matt, I think whenever the NT is referred to as eyewitness report, one has to imagine 1) the meaning of the word has changed 2)the christian means something different when he talks of it and 3) they are just plainly lying. Unless we use the analogy of two eyewitness to a scene of an accident. They both see the same car but from different sides. The car has different colours on either side so one sees a silver car and another sees a yellow car. I see no way else of how the last words of Jesus can be eyewitness accounts, that is leaving every other contradiction aside.
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Even using the analogy of The Five Blind Men and the Elephant, we must acknowledge that ultimately, all five were actually wrong.
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Why would someone spend a lifetime rationalising these contradictory stories to fit an eyewitness report. If they were journalists, they would have been fired by their respective bosses
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Yes, but they’re not journalists, they’re peddlers of pulp fiction, much like Ark.
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Hahaha. When Ark comes here, your skin will be flayed and I will not be there to help you 🙂
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LOL — Mak, it has become apparent to me that Arch is a glutton for punishment.
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the two of them enjoying going at each other’s throats- literally! Maybe they should have a cold one together to settle the proverbial hatchet
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I’ll drink to that.
Cheers.
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Cheers buddy
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Nope, just convinced that I can handle myself.
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Yeah, you trouble maker. razz:
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He may flay, but I can filet –
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Well, that would be a good match.
I will be the referee
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Mak – because they never cite sources, because they never gave their own names, or because they wouldn’t date their work? 🙂
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Am concerned about the present day believer who spends his time on the internet where there exists so much criticism of the bible stories and still argues that the stories are valid. This brand of believers shock me.
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Arch – brilliant. 🙂
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Mak, I agree.
But you can hand Christians 4 perfectly good eyewitnesses to alien abduction and they still won’t believe it (most anyway). Its not about whether it makes sense, or whether four eyewitnesses are good enough to certify a miracle. Its just “whatever we have to tell ourselves”.
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Have you read The Christ by John E. Remsburg?
Theists and especially the ones of the Abrahamic faith are a funny lot
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I find the colours hypnotic and spellbinding!
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LOL, glad to hear it. 🙂
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What program are you using to create these charts, if you don’t mind me asking?
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See this thread:
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So, I’m crazy late to this party, but I’ve been way behind on my reading lately — just super busy with work. Matt, this is fantastic. I know how much work this took, and I’m very impressed. The “Other Quizzical Conundrums” section is brilliant — I had never really thought of those before.
Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I’ll likely use this at some point with family members, if I’m given the chance. If that happens, I’ll let you know how it goes. 😉
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Nate! Thanks man, always glad to hear from you. Hope all has been well. Feel free to use in whatever way is most productive to the cause. : -)
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Matt — fine job. You inspired me to offer a blur between your last to choices on how to see Jesus. Here is my infographic — imitating (and acknowledging) yours.
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I like it Sabio. 🙂 by the way, where does the triple yin yang come from?
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From my “Purpose” tab:
Being playful by nature, I often change this site’s avatar and banner and avatar. My new avatar symbolizes:
The triangle: a symbol for “triangulations”
The ! (exclamation mark): a symbol for excitement, awe, wonder and pleasure
The Triple Ying-Yang: mixing up the traditional
The Font: a Chinese flavor this time. Past ones have been Indic and Satanic!
BTW, having dabbled with illustrations for my posts too, I know how much time they take — it is much easier to just type deserts of bland black-and-white type. So I know that you must have put a huge amount of time in your illustration — superbly done!
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Nice – so it was meant to make people ask. And it worked!
Thanks man. Yep, lot of time spent on that graphic. 🙂
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